Fourth quarter comeback falls short as Heat lose seventh straight to Suns 118-105

First Half

Bradley Beal drew first blood, but Terry Rozier got the crowd involved seconds later with a freeze move on Kevin Durant. It was all Terry to start with the Heat looking hungrier than they have in months.

Still, the problems that have hindered the team in recent weeks were still on full display as Miami turned the ball over gifting buckets to the Suns (they had 5 before the six minute mark). Luckily Miami was efficient on offense to start getting Highsmith, Herro and others involved allowing them to get out to a small lead. It didn’t help though that Drew Eubanks absolutely feasted for easy baskets in the paint, and with the Heat suddenly missing shots (and nearly all of its threes) the Suns would take back the lead. Terry Rozier did his best to keep shocking the Heat into some kind of offensive rhythm, and it worked briefly but poor defense let the Suns take a 7-0 run to take an eight point lead into the second quarter.

Phoenix didn’t slow down extending their lead to 14, but Caleb Martin and Bam Adebayo would halt their run with some much needed buckets. Josh Richardson would also get involved after getting benched in New York, but even with the fight showing some fight poor defense would render its effort moot. That coupled with 37% shooting from the field kept the Heat comfortably behind by 15 points. Thankfully the Heat would show signs of life with Jimmy doing some work from his usual spots but it couldn’t cut in comfortably and would go into the second half still down by 13.

Second Half:

Durant and Phoenix continued to run up the score to start the second half, with Miami barely showing signs of life. The defense was better with Haywood fouling often by aggressively. Terry and Jimmy once again tried to elevate the offense and would do so slightly, but down 17 with Bam being a complete non-factor the struggles continued. It also didn’t help that Booker started to cook – couple that with Miami’s lack of fight and you get the perfect formula for a blowout and that’s what was happening with less than five minutes in the third quarter with Miami down 19.

The fourth quarter offered a little bit of hope with J-Rich, Herro and others starting to put things together on a 10-0 run. Suddenly Bam and the reserves were showing real signs of life and a comeback became a possibility.

The downside? Miami still couldn’t stop the Suns offense, still the Heat managed to get the lead down to 13 off Josh Richardson’s and Caleb Martin’s aggression. Miami cut things down to ten, but it came a quarter too late and they’d run out of time to make a complete run. It was nice seeing the Heat show some heart, but this is not the same Heat team that looked so comfortable earlier in the season – this team is in a freefall and they need solution yesterday. I don’t think the solution is another trade, this team needs to work through it and hopefully come out the other side.

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Max Pain

All the players are pressing right now, especially Bam, Love, Duncan and Caleb.

There’s nothing but sheer panic running through this team right now.

I’ve never seen the look on Bam’s face that I saw last night ever before even when he was a rookie.

I hate to say this but I think it’s time to pull the plug on the Jimmy era.

Let the rest of the season play out then have Pat cordially sit Jimmy down and explain to him that we’d like to move on to the next phase, we’ll give you an opportunity to win a ring. 

Give us about 3-4 contenders that you would be willing to play for and we’ll do our best to get you to one of them.

It’s time to move on, Jimmy’s presence on the team this season has been disruptive.

He can no longer stay healthy for the regular season and when he does play he plays bored basketball which disrupts the flow that the younger players have already established without him.

The longer he stays, the older he gets, the more injured he’s going to be, the more fking slower he’s going to get, the less regular season games he’s going to play and the more disruptive his presence is going to be.

As a wise man once said “You’ve got to know when to hold em.”
“Know when to fold em.”
“Know when to walk away.”
“And know when to run.”

It’s time to move on to a new era of heat basketball.
Also I think Pat would have to be crazy to trade a talent like Jovic.
Trade Herro? go right ahead, but Jovic? No fking way.
2-3 years from now all these teams that passed on Jovic in the draft are going to be crying like babies.

Last edited 1 month ago by Max Pain
Reality Czech

Re: your Butler comment. I’ve suggested almost exactly the same thing. It would be fair to him and the team.

Reality Czech

At the bottom of this thread, somebody gave all of us a -1. I had to laugh. They’re probably saying that we’re all wrong. 😆

SunManFromDogBone

Herro and Jovic for Vucevic and Caruso.

heat for life

that happens nba finals for us

SunManFromDogBone

Tyler Herro says he’s sacrificing for the Miami Heat. Here’s what he means
https://allucanheat.com/posts/tyler-herro-says-he-s-sacrificing-for-the-miami-heat-here-s-what-he-means?

utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email&sc=e0273490fd355e2c28bdb25751d41af65a4dd80936ff00a80be9866c97887955https://twitter.com/i/status/1752170749949808694

Last edited 1 month ago by SunManFromDogBone
SunManFromDogBone

Bam is a very good, hard-nosed, two-way player. However, he is not a LEGIT NBA CENTER! He is too short to compete with the league’s better/taller defenders. He would benefit greatly by having a big PF or two-way center playing alongside him. He needs a decent 3 point shot to be a true All-Star caliber PF.

Tyler Herro is a hot & cold SG. He has no interest in being a PG (although he has the height, athleticism and playmaking skills to be a very good one). He is not into defense. He does not fit the “Heat Culture.”

Butler has turned into a “Hot & Cold” player. Since his return from injury, he seems to think he can turn it “off & on” whenever he wants. The rest of the team follows his lead. Is he playing injured/not fully recovered, trying to prevent further injury, trying to save his body for the postseason? I have no clue. I do know that this version of Jimmy is not good for the team.

The Bam/Butler/Herro combination does not work well!
Butler record as Heat starter: 159-104 (.605)
Bam Record as a starter: 197-154 (.561)
Herro record as Heat starter: 63-65 (.492)
Butler+Bam as starters: 12-7 (.632)
Butler+Bam+Herro as starters: 10-12 (.455)

Solution(s):

  • Trade Herro for a legit PF or 3 & D C
  • Re-insert Robinson in the starting unit
  • Find out what the issue is/issues are with Jimmy
  • Re-shuffle the rotation to maximize players’ abilities to meet team’s needs
Joe Bloe

Jimmy’s issue is Father Time. He will be able to perform at a high level some nights. Not every night.
I’m afraid we’re losing Jimmy’s window.
And the insistence of playing Bam at Center has always frustrated me.

Reality Czech

Things certainly are feisty here in HHH land these days. Losing brings out the anger and frustration for fans and players. What some are losing sight of is we’re all on the same side of wanting our team to be successful. If my opinion turns out wrong and the Heat win it all or get close, I’ll be a very happy camper (more so if they win it all).

vagibugi

Strange, I didnt noticed a lot of anger, its more like f**k, what is going on… what Spo is doing, where is Bam, where is Jimmy…… where are the others.

Easely can be said, that we are right now among bottom 5 teams in the league. The way we lose shows that. Like Heat are in the wrong league.

I havent seeen this team in such state in last 10 years.

heat for life

if your two best players are balling out and giving 100% effort this 7 game losing streak would have never happened.this is all on bam and coffee,wheres the fight the desire to win basically nonexistent,dunc spo jrich ty caleb hh etc will not pull us out of this. its up to jim and bam.if jimmy cant gives us game in game out of greatness and effort then ship his ass out.

Bout30man

You see, I appreciate your sentiments but I think it kind of is the opposite. Jimmy and Bam carried us so much farther than the rest of the team would have ever gotten us with two lesser players. To quantify it, on a healthy team with talent more evenly distributed, maybe Jimmy would carry us 25% and Bam 20%. Last year the two carried us maybe more like 30% and 25%. It isn’t sustainable and this year it has proven to be too much load to carry, particularly for Jimmy, but Bam too.
They need a better supporting cast. Rozier was a start. We lost a big help in Vincent but we got a better one in JJJ. So, we aren’t far from having what we need to allow Jimmy and Bam to lead us 45%, which is about what your two best players can handle. So, again to quantify it, Rozier over Lowry gave us another 7.5% more, and if we shored up the other weakness we had, a big to replace HH/Love/Bryant, that could give us another 7.5%. Then we could compete.
I know these numbers are just estimates, but they are an attempt to explain how much supporting cast we need. Teams are cumulative in strength, each player carrying some of the load. My point is we overdepend on Jimmy and Bam and they slowly wear down.

Bout30man

Everyone is looking for answers. A lot of things we thought are now in question. The solutions we come up with run almost the gamut of ideas., some want more trades, some want to use different player combinations. We do know we are losing, really losing badly. And Sacramento is another challenge coming in. Times are tough. And Jimmy’s window is closing, maybe it’s already closed.
And I am not sure if anything will work anymore but this is the way I see it….
We need one more trade, one more is all we can do, one more is all we have assets for. And, if it doesn’t work, then just have to accept fate. And we need it now for this team to have enough time to come together.
I say we do it for Jimmy. I still think he can carry us one more time. And Bam is still great. JJJ is a great addition. JRich has helped. Caleb looked a little like last playoffs Caleb last night for the first time in a while. And Rozier still needs to acclimate but he will be an asset and you can see that already. So, there are six good players right there and that is a lot.
Ty and Dunc are both excellent offensive threats and have value, but they are just ok on defense, although better than they used to be. One will be a help but we don’t need both. We should trade Ty for several reasons but mostly because he will bring the most back. We need a better big for the HH/Love/Bryant spot. That is our glaring weakness.
HH should be a second teamer, and Love and Bryant should be farther down the rotation, Love below Bryant. Jovic, I don’t buy his positive stats that someone points to. Sometimes team stats give players false positives, especially in a small sample. I think he should be trade bait to enhance the Ty trade. He may get good someday but not today.
Hey, I am not sure anything will work but even though we are losing lately I still think we are close and with the trade I proposed, we could compete. I think we would have the talent for sure if we got that one more player.
Just one more trade…

Max Pain

Man I know it’s not good for continuity but I sure would like to see Jovic back in the starting lineup at pf.

Bam has by far his best 2-man net rating of the season playing next to Jovic.

Jaquez also has his best 2-man net rating of the season when he shares the floor with Jovic and so does Jimmy.

The Bam, Jovic Jaquez frontcourt has a net rating of 18 in 8 games together.

The Bam, Jovic, Jimmy frontcourt has a net rating of 19 in 5 games together.

Defensively Jovic covers the paint against bigs which allows Bam to smother smaller players on the perimeter.

It worked out well defensively that’s why they were so effective together.

I got to admit man I’m ready to see the future core of Bam, Niko, JJJ, Herro and TRoz play together.

I’m starting to get tired of watching this shtty azz small ball and watching bored, uninspired Jimmy slog through another regular season.

vagibugi

This looks like Space jam three to me….. somebody stole all the skills.
If there would be a well playing team on the other side, there would be 30 points difference in first half.

Everything is wrong right now.

Small ball can be fine, if:

-ball movement is good
-shooting is good
-defence is aggressive

Is something of above is missing, then the results wont be good. and Heat currently can get done anything of that.

Heat cant get anything out of Bam and Butler. I can explain that.

ManilaHeat

8 game losing streak in a nutshell

oregoner

This is the first game I’ve watched since the Memphis debacle. And they look better, but they still have a long way to go.

I’ll start with the positives. Caleb was flying around on defense. Jamie’s passing and cutting a sight for sore eyes. Herro and Rozier look like they’re developing some chemistry.

Now for the negatives, and I’ll try to be brief. Most obviously, this team is playing October basketball. They went 10-deep in the first quarter, and that was without Bryant or Jovic. Spo is clearly trying to figure out how to get all the pieces to fit together. And these guys look like they’ve barely played together. Jimmy Butler also looks like a mediocre player out there. He definitely has his moments, but he’s just not a reliable star player for this team. And Bam, who was so good for the first three months of the season, just looks lost out there.

I agree with the people that want to see more size out there. Most of you have been asking for Bryant, and I would like to see more Jovic. But I think realistically, this team needs to go the other direction and shorten the rotation. Maybe send Highsmith and J-Rich to the bench for a little while and play 8-deep, at least for a little while. There are too many guys on this team right now, and nobody knows their role.

My final thought (and I know nobody is going to appreciate it, but it’s true) this shit happens. It’s a long season. Lots of guys returning from injury, a popular guy got traded, the rotation is in flux. On top of that, multiple guys have missed games due to “illness”, which leads me to believe that all of these guys are a little sick and playing at 80%. Not trying to make excuses for this team, but that’s just the reality. Hopefully they can get a little mojo back before the all-star game, then come out of the break with a renewed vision.

Sundayafternoons

Had the same thought watching Bam last night, he had the sickness whatever it was too. He was just off.

ZechMerquise

i like it. i mean, i hate that we lost, but i like that we at least gave an effort to get back in the game. i dont mind losing to a superior team, but we should at least give an effort. Alright lets get the next 2 games!

Last edited 1 month ago by ZechMerquise
heat for life

if jimmy would just set the example in the first minutes of the game which he never does then maybe it will perk up the remaining squad.jimmy just needs to take the game over in the first 5 minutes and that will give the team energy.if the other guys see jimmy busting ass and getting fired up i think it will pick up everybodys game.the talent is as good as its ever been since the big 3 minus a nazr reid type player.jimmy just needs to have some moments weve all seen him have here before.

Reality Czech

I agree. No matter how good or bad the Lakers play, they don’t expect DLo or Reeves to lead – LeBron leads. 39 years old and he still plays all out in nearly every game.

Joe Bloe

That’s why you can count the superstars in the NBA on one hand.
There are novas and then there are sipernovas.

SunManFromDogBone

We’re # 8! We’re #8! We’re #8!
Good News! We’re still 2 games up on 9th place Chicago!
Yay!

ManilaHeat

The bb gods are cruel to us this time of the season. Maybe they’re preparing an improbable turn around again. Maybe fools hope but how many times this team overcame struggles? 3% chance seem so far already but that was just last playoffs. Losses piling up. That just sucks. Boys get your heads right pls…go Heat!

SunManFromDogBone

Did Spo stop coaching immediately after getting his new 8 year contract? Something is very, very wrong right now. Inquiring minds want to know what TF it is.

I can understand shots not falling. I don’t understand the team giving up on their defensive effort. They are getting killed on both ends. How can you win when even the crappy teams outscore you and shut down your offense. No energy, no rhythm, no flow, no communication.

Bam 8 points. Jaquez 2 points. Herro 5-18. 7 points out of Highsmith and Love? This team needs an energetic two-way PF or C yesterday! Bam can’t handle the paint by himself! Small Ball is dead!

GO HEAT!!!

Last edited 1 month ago by SunManFromDogBone
Bout30man

We are all searching for answers. Of everyone, your thoughts align with my own the most.

Alien

I am thankful that it is ONLY 13 and not 28. Thank you Jimmy,Bam,Herro, JRich and JJJ for making it happen

Alien

….also thanks to Caleb.

ManilaHeat

Still sucks they were outplayed so much and can’t overcome that big Suns lead like a lot of losses now. The trend. Sigh

Reality Czech

I really don’t see a reason to be thankful for a 13 point loss. It’s still a fairly bad loss. Granted, not a total embarrassment like a 28 point loss, but still a loss, so doesn’t matter in the scheme of things.
This team has a good roster. But they are underachieving. When you run a company and your team is underperforming, you light a fire under their azzes and/or reassign or terminate someone if you’ve already taken appropriate steps to motivate through incentives. Sometimes changes are needed. There’s no guarantee that will result in success, but leaving things status quo is not a good strategy.

Belacqua

Damn, RC, there’s a tyrant in there somewhere after all, huh? /jk

Reality Czech

Lol. 😆 Who let the dogs out? Really, though, I just want what’s best for this team. I see things with the Heat in 2 ways: the team I’ve loved for 35 years, and the team (and the NBA) as a business that has to be managed to get the best out of the employees. I think we are at least okay to very good in the guard and small forward positions. Bam could use help with a good backup center, be that Bryant, Orlando, or someone else. But the most glaring problem I see is at the power forward position. Having 6’5” guys go against 6’9”-7’ opposing players is a losing proposition imo. Highsmith, Martin, and Jaquez would be better suited to play sg or sf (though I think Jaquez can handle the backup pf spot nicely). I think if you add a solid 2 way pf to this group, they’d be better. But whatever happens, I’ll still be here hoping for the best.

Bout30man

I agree. Status quo cannot be the answer. And using what we have differently can’t be either. That is the one thing I think I know, but nothing is for certain anymore.

Alien

I am thankful because someone had predicted a 20 points deficit against the Suns after the Knicks’ game and I did not want him to be proved right. He almost was correct !

Alien

Heat cut 28 pts deficit to 10pts in the late 4th quarter with Bam, Tyler, JRich, Caleb, JJJ (Butler).
Sorry, Pat you have been scammed (duped) by the trade bearers!

Last edited 1 month ago by Alien
Bout30man

No, it’s the other way around. We need another trade. The position we need a trade is the HH/Love/Bryant spot. Those players you mentioned are some of our best and they did a nice job in the fourth quarter, but so did Rozier, far better than Lowry. The game was lost when we brought in Love and Duncan together. We fell apart at that time.
Hey, we all see what we want to see. There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy, we just disagree.

Alien

If I recollect we are 0-4 and free falling since the trade. Pat is too smart to fall for another scam.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alien
Reality Czech

We were already falling before the trade. We already had a very poor record against winning teams.

Alien

What was the purpose of a new pg. To stop the free fall, eh? Rather what you have is a waterfall. When you don’t know what the problem is, how can you know what the remedy is?

Reality Czech

Boy am I confused. The person the Heat got in the trade was the second leading scorer and very efficient at 21/2/3/1 block, shooting 8-14 and 4-6 3p.
Butler had an outstanding game. I’m glad they mounted that comeback effort, but still lost for their longest losing streak in 16 years. Bam with 8 points, Herro still erratic (5-18). Martin and Richardson had solid games.
I’m sorry I don’t remember who the poster was in the beginning of this season who kept expressing concern over the Heat constantly blowing large leads. He was right. Now we seem to be trying to come back from large deficits. We’ve had to rally against some of the worst teams in the league to pull out a close victory. We’ve lost to some of those teams too. We are now 7-16 against teams with a winning record.
i only own 2 Heat player jerseys – Wade and Herro (I got that one in his first season). I think he’s a gifted offensive player who still has upside. But if we could trade him, or someone else, for a Kuzma, or Reid or similar 6’10-7’ pf that can hit 3s and get some defensive AND offensive rebounds, I’d hope they do it. Will it happen by this trade deadline? I don’t think it will. I suspect they will try to pick up a Tucker or other buyout player and let the season play out.

oregoner

I don’t think there’s another trade coming. This team has almost zero chemistry as it stands right now, the last thing they need is another shakeup.

I’m hoping this is similar to the Clippers after the Harden trade, with everyone learning their new roles. I noticed a couple times when Rozier was on the perimeter standing in the same spot as another Heat player. Bam hasn’t been running his famous screen hand-offs. Jamie will make a great cut but someone else will clog the lane. They just look like a bunch of guys that barely know each other playing pick-up basketball.

I’m hoping they cut short their vacations around the all-star break and spend some extra time practicing, and getting to know each other, and learning how to play together. I’m sure that’s what Pat Riley would have done twenty years ago. I know the league doesn’t work that way now. But that’s what they need.

Alien

Rozier seems to play like he came from the G league and learning the team. But for a guy in the NBA, that has watched the Heat play and seen Bam in pick and rolls or making those mid range jumpers, I am at a miss why he does not involve Bam much when the ball is in his hands. If he does not take a shot or go to the rim, he either passes to the next guy by the arc or he is looking for Jimmy. I am reserving my analysis of the Heat before and after the trade after Rozier has played 10 games with the Heat. It took Jrue Holiday 1 game to mesh with Boston, while Dame needed 3 games to mesh with Bucks. I am cognizant that some players may need a little more game, so I am comfortable giving Rozier 10 games out of generosity. He has 6 more games to fit in. I agree with Spo that he has to fit in and do it quickly, time may be running out on him.

Last edited 1 month ago by Alien
oregoner

Dame and Jrue got traded before training camp started. So they didn’t have 1 game or 3 games. They had a full training camp and preseason, then they started playing games against a bunch of other teams that were just starting the season.

Terry got traded midseason to a team that was already on a 3-game losing streak, and played his first game before he even had his first practice. It’s not a fair comparison

Alien

You don’t have to be confused. I knew a new pg would not resolve the issues but you were stubborn to listen. It ss not confusion it is stubborness.

Alien

Well it was me who expressed concerns about blowing large leads. Not only that, I also said the issues would not be solved by trading for a pg. On both counts not to beat my chest, I have been right.

Reality Czech

Unless you were using a different handle early this season, there was someone else (besides you) complaining about the blown leads. Whoever it was, was advocating for personnel changes.
As for the pg position, I think our opinions are polar opposites. You can’t be suggesting that Rozier is not an upgrade over Lowry? Lowry at $5-8 million a year would’ve been a good backup. At $29 million, it was one of the worst contracts given to a Heat player.
I did not suggest that only getting a pg would resolve the problem. At the beginning of the season, I was excited about Jovic being healthy and signing Bryant and O Robinson because they gave us more needed size. They either haven’t been utilized correctly, haven’t been efficient, or a combination of both.
You seem to think that this team can win, or compete for, a championship as is (even before the Rozier acquisition) if they just gel. I admit that I don’t see that. On this issue, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. But I certainly won’t be beating my chest if I’m right.

oregoner

I spent a fair amount of time complaining about the blown leads at the beginning of the season. The thing is, to blow a lead, you have to play well for three quarters. For the first few months of the season, even if they Heat were losing games, they were always playing well enough to win. One of the reasons this losing streak is so alarming. They’ve been playing well all season, win or loose. Over the past few games, they’ve been getting absolutely throttled.

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