One of the NBA rumor mill’s worst kept secret is that the Miami Heat have significant interest in acquiring Dallas Mavericks’ sharpshooter Klay Thompson.
However, the Heat’s interest in the veteran guard has been lingering for a long time, with zero clarity to follow. The hold up? Thompson is still under contract for one more season, thus a buyout or trade would be required to get their hands on the 36-year-old rather than signing him outright as a free agent.
As the Heat approach training camp in late September, time is running out to fill out their new Giannis Antetokounmpo revamped roster. They still have at least two standard roster slots to address, with the hold up seemingly being a waiting game on if Thompson shakes free.
But if not, the only reasonable trade that makes sense financially is by offloading Nikola Jovic. Let’s discuss all the pros and cons of Miami making that type of deal:
Pro: Heat get the perfect fit shooter that they need
The Thomson fit is undeniable for this Heat team built around two non-shooting stars in Antetokounmpo and Adebayo. Even in his later years, Thompson still averaged 11.7 points on an efficient 39.3% from 3-point range with nearly eight attempts per game last season. That is a lot of volume to justify labeling the veteran as a still elite outside shooting specialist, even at this stage of his career.
And what does Miami need the most? Shooting.
Pro: More championship veteran experience
As Antetokounmpo and Bobby Portis both bring championship experience into the fold after the early summer blockbuster trade, Thompson would add a lot more to that. He is a four-time NBA Champion and has been part of several different iterations of contending teams. That type of player only brings even more value to a locker room of guys filled with title aspirations.
It’s worth noting that Thompson also won a chip alongside current Heat starting wing Andrew Wiggins in 2022.
Pro: Frees up future cap space
Jovic is coming off a disastrous injury riddled 2025-26 season this past year, right after Miami had committed to a four-year $64 million extension for a young player that hasn’t proved much yet— both availability wise and with the on-court production.
Trading Jovic and that questionable contract to acquire on a win-now veteran like Thompson on an expiring salary creates more longer term financial flexibility.
Con: Heat trade away their last remaining assets
After Miami shipped out Tyler Herro, Kel’el Ware, Jaime Jaquez Jr. and Kasparas Jakucionis— Jovic is the final true young asset that they have. Not to mention, Dallas might not even be satisfied with a Jovic-Thompson straight up swap. A first or second-round draft pick could be needed as a sweetener after Jovic’s poor 2025-26 season and tough contract to swallow.
Trading both Jovic and a first essentially clears out Miami’s asset inventory entirely. And who knows if an even better role player than Thompson hits the trade market?
Con: Giving up on a Jovic bounce back
Once upon a time, Jovic had a lot of upside to look forward to. At his best two seasons ago, the forward showed flashes of a lot of raw talent and intriguing skill set. In spurts, he’s had capabilities to handle the ball, create for others, attack in transition and spread the floor as a spot up shooter.
At just 23 years old, there’s plenty of time for him to bounce back and prove his worth and/or rebuild his trade value with the Heat.
Con: Klay could hit free agency by midseason
Miami has already waited this long on Thompson’s availability on the market. At some point throughout the course of this season, Dallas could decide to pursue a buyout— which is how the Heat prefer to add him; at a discounted price. With Thompson also set to hit unrestricted free agency next summer in 2027, Miami could circle back to sign him outright on their own teams without trading away anymore assets.
Do you think the pro’s for trading for Klay right now outweigh the con’s? Let us know in the comments below!
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looks like richards could be a heater
Look like LeBron, Klay and DeMar too. I won’t believe anything until the fat lady sings.
I took a few days off but I read all the comments. I have nothing but respect for all of you. We turned on each other a little, but that can happen when we are passionate fans.
I do want to say a few words supporting 2015 as I think his comments are very helpful, with all the stats. I do agree that certain stats can be deceptive, but the other side can also be true, as they can be illuminating and allow us to see things our vision doesn’t fully account for.
I hope everyone keeps posting and gives their opinions as honestly and clearly as possible and also their reasons for those opinions.
Having said all that, I still maintain there is sometimes an underlying theme to be supportive of the team on this thread. I find it healthy and positive as I have seen sites where very good teams are still harshly criticized and criticism seems to be the dominant tone of conversation. We are better than that, probably due to years of success and also more thoughtful posters.
And, having said that, there is a fine line where being overly optimistic becomes just as inaccurate as being overly pessimistic. Sometimes criticism is necessary, but only if it’s accurate. This thread, discussing trading Jovic, is a perfect time to illustrate how misleading over optimism becomes.
Has there ever been a player who was given more chances and got paid more handsomely than Niko? This is a player whose awkwardness was at times cringeworthy in his fourth year in the league. Rarely has a player looked more like a fish out of water than Niko. And yet, we are still talking about his coming back on fire from his European stint. We are still hoping he finds his mojo. Forgive me, as I have nothing against Niko. I hope he does break thru. But, it is illustrative of how being hopeful and optimistic can take our opinions off course. My opinion is there is perhaps only a five percent chance he makes it and I wish we had his salary to use on another player.
Again, these are just opinions. And I only layed it on thick on Niko to make a point. We should avoid being too harsh like I have just done to make my point, but sometimes being critical is more accurate. On the other hand, don’t be always criticizing either. We should be promoting the good moves buy the Heat, the strides certain players make, the accomplishments of the team. Comments should be a mix of whatever is appropriate, particularly since we are currently a slightly above average team (6th Swedish) who only last year was just an average team.
Now, keep those compassionate, heartfelt, and well articulated opinions coming.
The wishful thinking regarding Jovic is better than the alternative…bitchin about Riley giving him that 4 year/$62.4M contract before he earned it. Or bitchin about Spo playing him excessively even after it was obvious his self,-confidence was in the shitter.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. He was on a rookie contract until now. This season he needs to earn it. If his head is screwed on straight and his game is right, he can be an unexpected plus. The way I look at, he’s innocent until proven guilty. Blind optimism has nothing to do with it.
I agree. Do give him the benefit of the doubt. We have no other alternative. And, it would be awesome for the team if he somehow emerged à la JJJ. He plays a position of need. And, he will, at some point get his chance, and hopefully it will be another fair chance. But, if he doesn’t respond clearly to the positive, they can’t keep forcing him on the team just because he got paid. This should be Niko’s last chance and he is pretty lucky to get it in his fifth year. I don’t want to hear anything hopeful about him in 2027-28, if his results fairly closely mirror last year.
i think if kj was given the same chances as niko hed be better player.niko not athletic enough doesnt shoot well anymore,brings nada to the table.hes gotta improve his shot he cant get to the rim for sht
Good post. As is for Niko,
he is still here, he will play no matter what, and we will watch that, there is no way around.
We stuck with him, in one case of bad outcome for a really long time. Enough time for pessimism.
True. And thanks for the reply. I would like it to work out with Niko too. It would sure help the team. My point is that it’s a low percentage hope, after four years, even though he was very young at first. But, you are right that we are likely stuck with him. We don’t have any choice but to hope for the best.
Really appreciate the kind words that what I wrote was useful, thank you. On stats I feel pretty strongly that if NBA teams are using them all the time then anyone can, they’re just numbers and ways to communicate information and should not be restricted to a select group of people.
I just saw this proposed trade. If Heat going all in, may as well go all the way in.
Heat receive: Kevin Durant and Scotty Pippen Jr.
Rockets receive: Andrew Wiggins, Nikola Jovic and 2029 first round pick (via MIA)
Grizzlies receive: 2027 second round pick (via MIA)
Then Miami can then bring in DeRozan and possibly a vet minimum player (e.g. Nick Richards)
Mitchell, Larsson, Durant, Giannis, Bam
Pippen Jr., Hardaway, DeRozan, Portis, Richards
Smith, Conwell, Gardner, Fontecchio,
wig and nikola first for kd lol u out on your balcony with your hemp lebron
Houston doesn’t want him.
por que hes still a top 15 player
nobody would take niko at 15
He apparently likes to criticize his teammates on social media anonymously. Not a leader, just a mercinary. Heat have enough alpha so don’t need him to be one
maybe but for wig niko 1st a no brainer.for a top 20 player all time whos still playing at a high level.id do that trade in a sandiego minute.a frontline of greek bam kd is a top 3 all time frontline.in history of nba.that would put bam as the third best player which is what is needed for my 4th
how bout kd for pg.kd with jt would be fun to watch
KDs contract next year would impact the ability to extend Larsson and resign Mitchell. The fit on offense would be great but overall not ideal IMO. The fit of the Heat frontcourt as is can not get any better, with a MVP level scorer and Wiggins and Bam at the 3 and 5 to do the dirty work and defend.
old saying in sports u cant have enough good players
Agree, you could keep the frontcourt as is and add a player who gets pretty close to how KD is guarded on the perimeter in Klay, plus keep Jovic as an upside bet and keep the first. Vs breaking up the frontcourt fit, trading 2 rotation players for one and losing a pick. And then needing to resign KD next year to likely a big contract.
I was suggesting for those who feel they can’t wait for Heat to be relevant. Push everything into the middle of the table and go for broke now!! Who cares about tomorrow.
with greek here theres no future for a while when he s gone as mentioned earlier.
this is a 3-5 year project for jewelry.i need 4 and 5 before greek retires .and one thing for sure when he reitres we will suck for a while.kds almost 7 ft just about unguardable.i think i can guard old klay now. big difference kds level than klays level not close 2015.we need more help in bc but if u get a kd type player for pennies on the dollar your gonna make a man from athens very happy and a chronic hhh poster very happy to and im not talking about sm or rc
KD was #1 in gravity last year, Klay was #6, good luck guarding one of the closest guarded players in the league, he’d hit 70 threes in a row on you like in practice
I’d like to say that I do not intend to discuss the Klay Thompson issue any further unless and until he becomes a member of the Heat. The rumor mill has been mostly quiet lately, so not much to talk about. Hopefully, there will be some real news in the not too distant future.
how bout demar derozan rc
No. Enough with the speculation. In fact, I am upset that I let myself waste far too much time going back and forth on the Klay issue. I just look forward to this team actually doing something. I understand they may want to take their time, but I’m tired of waiting. Our thj signing was 7/6, 6 weeks ago.
For those asking, nothing new on Klay Thompson front as of last night. As
@EthanJSkolnick
and
@Anthony_Chiang
and I have reported, that’s who Heat wants. Period. Miami wants to get him via buyout unless Dallas surprisingly finds trade partner. Ethan reports that Klay wants to play for Heat. Only problem dallas wants something for him.(hfl reporting).Why not reunite with steph hfl thinking that would be cool.
thats the only thing heat wise to talk about him or dd.keeps nba in news during football season.
RIP Tommy John
I remember him when he started with White Sox before Dodgers got him. That’s when he had rotator cuff surgery. Long ago. I remember as a fireballer before surgery and control pitcher/junk baller after.
If Miami is unable to sign Thompson, I would consider the following as successful options:
Mitchell, DeRozan, Wiggins, Giannis, Bam
Hardaway, Larsson, Fontecchio/Jovic, Portis, Richards
Smith, Donaldson, Conwell, Gardner, Jovic/Fontecchio
we dont get dd gotta wait til feb trade deadline or next year.for jewelry hes a diff maker dont care what 2q thinks(he knows lots about sports though)with ballmer kinda cleared of his funneling money to kawhi i wouldnt be surprise iif dd heads north of border
A bird in the hand…
im saying dd goes to toronto sm
lal not in position for jewelry mia is klay comes here my bet
Highsmith back to Phoenix
im not high on smith not high on much these days.good ole days in rear view mirror
High on life man…high on life.
~ Thomas Jefferson ~
your last name is jefferson?
Movin on up to the east side
George Jefferson [Coming home, and seeing Florence dressed as a maid out of the Civil War] What’s for dinner?… Pancakes?
He said it was ok so I figured it was ok. Love me some blue state.
In Texas, a strict new state ban took effect on July 31, 2026. Possession of previously legal hemp-derived THC products—such as Delta-8, Delta-10, THCP, and THCA flower—is now treated as a state jail felony carrying 180 days to 2 years in prison and up to $10,000 in fines.
In California, adults 21 and older can legally possess up to 28.5 grams of cannabis flower and 8 grams of concentrated cannabis. Violating these limits or breaking cultivation and public consumption rules results in specific infractions or misdemeanors, prosecuted under guidelines detailed by resources like the California Department of Cannabis Control.
What a waste of words for a player who is not worth this any more.
I watched a lot of Mavs when Luka was there.
So I watched a lot of Thompson too.
He wasn’t good, and that’s was 2 years ago. Since then, he was moved to bench, playing for a bad team. His number could be solid, but he got those number in trash time, rarely when it matters.
I even doubt, that he is a better player right now then THJ.
He is worth a vet minimum, nothing more.
Trading Jović for him would be a mistake. Why?
Jovic has at least a chance, to show something of a value next season. Thompson has zero. Team wont be any better with him.
For volume 3PT shooters in the NBA last year it was Ball 13.2, Curry 13.1, Thompson 12.7 3PA per 36, then a dropoff. Klay had the second best 3P% of those top 3 after Curry and was also playing on the 27th ranked offense. He’s still a world class shooter and unlike most also has the defensive instincts and championship experience that will stay a part of his game until he retires. But the main thing the Heat need is just more people willing to shoot, and he is one of the very few best in the league at that. It has to be unusual someone with that shooting profile is even available to add at this point in the offseason. It’s definitely the #1 move out there that can raise this team’s ceiling IMO. Pelle as 6th man and in closing lineups, THJ, Dru, Portis and Jovic off the bench and that is a 10 man rotation with a lot of offense around Giannis.
Why is everybody obsessing about Thompson when there is no confirmation he is being bought out and released? Furthermore, there is no guarantee he would sign with Miami if he was bought out. L.A. and Golden State seem like much more likely choices?
You would think folks would have learned something from the whole LeBron cluster**k. What is plan B in the remote chance Thompson doesn’t happen?
He’s the Heats #1 target for a reason. He could sign with those over the tax teams on a minimum vs up to $8.9m with Miami. My opinion here has been that is the single highest upside use of the money available. If it doesn’t happen there are plenty of other ways to use it for spots 13-15 on the roster.
Any names in particular since you already wrote off DeRozan. Vincent? Achiewa? Highsmith? Miles Leonard?
There is plenty of time to figure that out, there are always unsigned players like that when the season starts and into the season. In the meantime Dallas will have to act first on its roster. Miami can simply wait to see what Dallas does.
Actually, LeBron was Miami’s #1 target. We all know how that turned out.
Shams on July 28: “The Miami Heat’s number one priority right now is to acquire shooting. And they found their No. 1 target for that…Klay Thompson.”
LeBron went to a northeast team after Rich Paul said he would have signed with NYK had they not won the title. What does that have to do with the Heat wanting to add Klay? Nothing. LeBron was half the league’s #1 target as an all-star player on a minimum contract, of course that would include Miami.
imo greek was 1 sm for gm 2 lebron 3
Thangya vera mush. However, I believe the correct order was
2 lebron and 3 sm for gm. If you have any doubts have statboy research it.
guy has a stat for everything.just watch the friggin games u know whos great good average bad and jovic
Instead of looking into stats I watched that man playing for, maybe 50 or 100 games.. believe me, he is not worth it.
The stats are important because they show his shooting is still elite regardless of team situation. How adding one of the top 3PT shooters last year at low cost off a buyout is not worth it is an idea that doesn’t make any sense to me. Having a player like that simply on the court would change the scouting report for the opposing defense, and he doesn’t need to touch the ball to do that.
What is your reliable source that Dallas is considering buying him out? Why is there not one single NBA team willing to trade for him? How about some statistics on that theory.
He’s 36 and teams in today’s NBA don’t want to give up draft assets for a 36 year old unless it’s Durant/an All-NBA level player.
There is no reporting saying Dallas is interested in a buyout because that would prevent any trade market for him that they’ve been trying to create. That doesn’t mean they wont eventually pivot to a buyout.
If they had 15 players they could keep Klay’s contract and try to trade it at the deadline, what Ujiri did with Dragic a few years ago. But this situation is different because being over the roster limit now at 16 they can’t do that without waiving someone in their rotation like Moussa Cisse, second year center they just retained in RFA, Biberovic, Sasser etc who they just traded for and are a decade younger than Klay, etc. And Caleb Martin has a player option for next year so he’s not a good candidate to be waived. That leaves Klay, barring them trading multiple players or trading one for no one in return, who doesn’t have a future on the team as the roster cut they can make that doesn’t impact their rotation.
I think Klay would be a good addition, probably the best of any available player out there as far as fit. But I have said, and I think most people here agree, that stats tell part of the story, not the whole story.
Until Dallas announces they are buying him out and releasing him, this entire conversation is moot. Mavs are better off holding him until the deadline and trading him as an expiring contract.
They can’t really do that as they have 16 players on the roster right now, so someone has to go. So they must make the decision – Klay or otherwise – to subtract one player before the season starts. Conversely, the Heat must fill 2 spots before the season starts.
That sounds like a Dallas problem, not a Miami one. If Riley wanted him that badly, he would offer Jovic and a pick. However, that would be premature. After playing two more August FIFA games for Serbia, Jovic may come into preseason camp breathing fire. It is prudent to wait, but not for Dallas or Thompson, for Jovic.
Teams are not going to offer assets for a player who may be bought out, that’s why Dallas is saying they have no interest in a buyout. But they have until opening day of the season to reduce their roster to 15. Miami doesn’t have that deadline and can add to their roster during the season.
If 29 teams don’t think a player is worth trading for, the player must not be all that valuable.
There are exceptions, but rules dictate teams must carry 14 on the roster or get there within 14 days. The maximum number of days a team is allowed to be under 14 per season is 28.
Yes, probably the best, but he wouldn’t improve the team much. As he didnt Mavs.
What part of the story is missing from the stat that shows Klay in 22mpg was one of the highest volume 3PT shooters in the NBA last year?
Where did you see a direct reference to Klay? I didn’t suggest your stats were incorrect. It’s a general statement. I can absolutely respect that vagibugi watched Klay extensively and he saw things that stats don’t necessarily reflect. He happens to know a great deal about the game.
What things are not reflected by the stats? His 3PA per 36 and 3P% last year were right in line with his averages over the last 5 years since the return from injury. He was on a bad team but so were many others and he was still #3 in the NBA in 3PA per 36. If anything maintaining those shooting numbers on a bad team is more impressive than shooting a higher percentage on more open looks on a better offense, which he would have in Miami.
If a knowledgeable person like him said he noticed things, I absolutely believe that. I have said before that stats are part of the picture, not the whole picture. You’re entitled to believe in them 100%. Doesn’t mean other people see it the same way. There are intangibles. I’m not asking you to agree or accept my point of view. I’m entitled to my opinion and no amount of retorts will change that. I’ve watched the game since the Cazzie Russell, Bill Bradley, Clyde, Pearl, Reed days. Like others – vagibugi, SM, hfl, 2qbn, BigGuy, IKTM, Ragu, and others – we all may see things differently.
Haven’t seen anyone say you’re not entitled to your opinion, which is that Klay is the best addition? You then said that stats give an incomplete view so I was asking what the full story was and what the shooting stats are leaving out.
It’s not all about stats. That’s my point. And, yes, of players who may realistically come available, I do think Klay would be the best fit.
We have the same opinion that Klay would be the best fit, but you seem to disagree that it is because of where Klay ranks in the league in 3PA and 3P% and is due to something else. To me that doesn’t make sense. It’s not a big deal but I’ve never insulted you and what I post is only basketball opinions, so it’s tiring to read that what I’ve posted is incomplete or misleading information without any explanation of why that is/what in your opinion is the full story.
Stats is important, and often shows a lot, but never everything.
I believe your stats, but also I believe my eyes. The league is full of players, which are getting good number on the paper, but they dont contribute to the team success.
To summarize:
-Klay was great in GS, but not good in Dallas. There is a very good chance that he wouldn’t be good in Miami.
-Despite that, he is a player he fits the best to current rooster in Miami among available players.
-But he wont contribute much to the team success coming to Miami, because he is not good enough any more.
-if he gets his buyout and sign in Miami for min, fine. I would take him. Any other option I would pass.
That’s where I don’t agree Klay was not good in Dallas. He was not signed as a star level player but as a shooter at just above the MLE to help the Mavs get back to the Finals. The idea was he would open up the Mavs offense, which had just struggled to score/space the floor vs Boston, even if he was a negative on defense. And when Luka was there he did that, the two man Luka-Klay lineup was the best two man lineup on the team that year at +10.6 in 506 minutes.
Then when Luka was traded and Kyrie hurt, there was no PG on the team and no shooting other than Klay and they went from Finals contender to lottery team. Last year the same thing, they were starting a rookie 19 year old PG and were one of the worst offenses in the NBA.
This is how Kevin Pelton graded the signing last year, he gave it a B- originally and a B in 2025:
“Ultimately, this deal played out as all three teams expected. Thompson started all 72 games he played for the Mavericks, who were fourth in offensive rating through Christmas Day before Luka Doncic was injured because of a calf strain. Thompson wasn’t able to scale up his offense as Dallas dealt with devastating injuries after trading Doncic, but that wasn’t a fair expectation at this stage of his career.”
So Klay plays most of the season – 69, 77, 72, 69 games played in the last four years – and when on the court is still one of the best shooters in the NBA. And the other thing that makes him a big addition is how he’s guarded by the defense. He was 6th in the league in off-ball perimeter gravity last year, 6th in overall gravity after KD, Ant, SGA, Luka, Kawhi, basically a measure of how someone bends the defense/affects the spacing of defenders. He doesn’t even need to touch the ball to improve the Miami offense.
I like the last sentence, he doesnt even need to touch the ball to improve the Miami offense.
Thats exactly how it was in Dallas. He sat on perimeter for an occasional three. Luka provided a lot of clean opportunities, so that’s explain his relatively high 3p %. Still, it was obviously clear, that he was often unable to run by his defender when he was closed on 3p. In that case, he just pass the ball back to Luka, which stalled offense. That was his game in Dallas.
He also had a slow start in the season, and somehow hits his shoots when it doesn’t really matter.
Klay became an one trick pony in Dallas. The trick is still good, but its not worth a trade. Its worth a vet minimum in case of buyout.
And yes, there was a reason, that he wasn’t a starter any more in bad Dallas team. The reason was that he was not good enough to start. He wont be good enough to start in Miami too.
So what we are doing to bring him in? Get another shooter from the bench?
It doesn’t seem to matter that you make specific points based on your direct observations. I believe he will respond with a suitcase full of more (or the same) stats to let you know that you are wrong.
Who is saying who is right and who is wrong? And what’s with all the passive aggressive comments? Clearly you don’t like what I post for whatever reason and you’ve projected views onto what I write that aren’t at all what I’ve said.
Clearly you don’t like what I post for whatever reason.
I have been abundantly clear on the reason. As far as I’m concerned, relying solely on stats/analytics does not tell you everything about a player.
Never said that I rely solely on stats. I post stats because they are pieces of information like anything else and can be debated. If you disagree that’s OK but to say someone who posts stats is missing the bigger picture is a way to get people not to comment on anything.
He started 72 games in 2024-25 and the Mavs were +10.6 with him and Luka on the court.
He started the first 7 games last year and was moved to the bench for D’Angelo Russell to get more ballhandling on the court next to Flagg, with the Mavs without Irving and Luka being an unbalanced, frontcourt heavy team. Then they went to Brandon Williams and Ryan Nembhard as starters. They had 44 different starting lineups, traded AD at the deadline, went with a young backcourt most of the year with Flagg at PG and Max Christie at SG.
Did Klay’s game completely fall off a cliff after game 7 of the season last year, or was it the team situation around him that led to him being benched? His per 36 scoring has been basically the same the last three years – 21.7 ppg in GSW, then 18.4 and 19.5 in Dallas, and 10.9, 10.1, 12.7 3PA with 38.7, 39.1, 38.3 3P%. Those are better numbers than Hardaway except for last year’s 3P%, when THJ was playing on the #1 offense in the league with Jokic.
I think he would start in Miami and the decision would be between Klay or Pelle. Miami’s #1 need is volume shooters who are willing to shoot to the point of being called chuckers – that’s a positive characteristic in the right setting. That player profile is all they’ve been adding this offseason between Conwell, THJ, Simone, and Klay does that better than anyone on the team.
These are the gravity ranks for last year of 234 players. According to this Klay is basically guarded like a superstar player. DeRozan is top 25 in overall gravity but lower in off-ball gravity which is what this team needs to open up space for Giannis.
Overall gravity
Klay 6th
DeRozan 23rd
Hardaway 25th
Simone 26th
Off-ball perimeter gravity
Klay 6th
THJ 31st
Simone 32nd
DeRozan 34th
https://www.nba.com/inside-the-game/player/gravity?SeasonType=Regular%20Season
A suitcase of stats as predicted to again show you are right and he is wrong. Predictable.
Very strange comments. This is discussion and having opinions on basketball. If you don’t like them or disagree, feel free to say why and what your opinion is.
i predicted that you would respond with a whole bunch of stats and you did. Why is that strange? I thought it was pretty prescient on my part. Why not just reach a point where you just say to someone that you and they will just agree to disagree?
Why not stop projecting things onto people you don’t know? This is talking basketball, it’s not a big deal. The only reason I replied is because I was tired of all your comments that someone who references stats doesn’t see the bigger picture.
My opinion is based on watching 50 or more full games of Dallas in 2024 and 2025, yours on stats.
It seems we disagree only in the level of excitement about Klay. I m not excited at all, based on what I saw 2 years ago, but I would take him for a vet minimum in case of buyout. With his experience he could get us a win or two, especially in play off.
I probably missed your opinion how much is his worth for you and what to give up for him, so I cant say if there is a disagreement.
But I m convinced that he is not a starting level player any more. One dimensional player, which he become in past years (not his fault, because age and injuries) , cant start for a good team. Those players are exposed, if not before, in play off.
Heck, even Dunc, probably the best distance shooter playing for Heat noticed , that just shooting is not enough, and learned another skill.
So, lets agree to disagree, and leave this at rest.
I m tired.
My point was in those games you watched the Mavs overall with Klay and Luka playing were outscoring opponents by a wide margin. Then with no Luka or Kyrie, the Mavs have been tanking since, with no offensive creator for Klay to play off of like there is in Miami with Giannis. I think the biggest thing about Klay’s game is how he is guarded is unlike anyone on the Heat currently, and that’s regardless of whether he’s making or missing shots. That IMO makes him by far the best addition the Heat could add at $8m or so, I doubt a veteran minimum would be enough since he’d give up money in a buyout.
I didn’t say Klay wouldn’t fit…especially on a vet minimum contract. However, holding our collective breaths and hoping he is bought out and hoping he will decide to play for Miami (rather than his former team, the Warriors or his father’s team/his own favorite home towm team, the Lakers) sure does seem like a lot of wishing and hoping.
A bird in the hand (DeRozan) is better than a bird that isn’t even in the bush yet (Thompson).
Not if signing one affects your ability to sign the other, which is the reason the Heat haven’t signed anyone yet.
I have not suggested that your numbers are incorrect or they don’t have validity. I have only stated what I and others believe – that there are intangibles that come into play. The other responses here reasonably expand on this thought. One little example: a player may have a skill set and stats that would theoretically be a great fit, but if his personality or off court antics are disruptive, his addition could be a disaster. I think the last 2 seasons of Butler were like that – took separate flights, didn’t always stay in the team’s hotel, took questionable days off, periodic lackluster effort, strange interviews, goofy hairstyles.
That has nothing to do with Klay who was a professional on a tanking team last year. You said that there is always more to the story than stats, so I was asking what in your view Klay’s shooting stats were missing about his game. His defense is not the same and that was known when he signed with Dallas in 2024. Like at Dallas he’s a FA target for Miami for his impact on the offense.
You keep asking the same question and I keep giving you the same answer. This is not just about Klay. It is about over reliance on stats as the beginning and end of how you fully evaluate a player. There is more to it as I have pointed out. As for Klay, I (and hfl possibly among others) defer at least in part to vagibugi who has a knowledge level on basketball that I respect.
So, it seems as if the Cool Hand Luke movie statement is applicable:
”What we have here is a failure to communicate.”
I post things to try to add to discussion, to take definite positions and to learn more. You often post a variation of “there’s more to the story than stats” under what I write, without explaining further what the rest of the story is. So I was just asking you to explain in this case what the whole story is, and why Klay’s shooting ability, summed up by his 3PA and 3P%, does not make him the best addition to the team.
Look, I retired from a global company. Part of my skill set that I was recognized for was verbal and written communication. I have explained it multiple times in this thread alone and don’t want to keep repeating myself. But I will do so one last time. I did not disagree that Klay would be a good fit. The only shadow of a doubt is that a peer observed something that concerned him. This peer has been here much longer than you have. Therefore, I have probably read hundreds of his posts versus a few dozen of yours. I strongly respect his opinions, though we don’t always agree on everything. He brings something to the table that you seem to lack – objectivity! You seem incapable of accepting a viewpoint that deviates from your stats, your opinion.
So Klay is a good addition, or is not a good addition and only acceptable on a veteran minimum. Those are two different positions and it’s unclear what your view even is. I’ve been respectful in these comments and would ask that you do the same, and reply directly to what I post if you have something to say about it.
So Klay is a good addition, or is not a good addition and only acceptable on a veteran minimum.
Klay is a good addition
Klay is not a good addition
Klay is only acceptable on a veteran minimum
That seems like 3 positions. I’ve stated it multiple times. Here goes.
Klay would be a good fit and he’d probably get and deserve more than the minimum.
I can’t make it any clearer than that.
However, someone whose knowledge I respect has seen some flaws/decline in his game. He was specific about it. It doesn’t change my mind on Klay but accept what he says. I did not personally observe Klay.
Should the Heat spend the $8.9m left of the MLE on Klay or go after other additions like DeRozan is the question and it’s probably either one or the other. Most people here seem to favor not adding Klay on anything more than a minimum, and instead spending the MLE to fill the roster spots now. What I’ve been arguing the case for is what the Heat are doing IMO, which is waiting til Oct 19 if needed to add to the roster and targeting Klay as the #1 addition, because he can change this teams upside. It’s all just opinion and I am working with imperfect information, but NBA teams are looking at all the stats I’ve posted and more, so I’m trying to figure out what they’re looking at.
but *I* accept….
I always try to be objective. Its good to hear that that is noticed. Thanks for nice words, RC.
Years ago, you told people here about a teenager playing in Europe who was going to be a really special talent. You didn’t use stats, just your observations.
That player, of course, was Luka Doncic.
I always remembered that. So when you talk, I may not always agree, but I listen.
u look at tys stats they look pretty decent.but he lets in as many pts as he scores.guys like draymond and josh hart have minimal stats but just do whatever it takes to win.theyre impact on winning much greater than herro doing winning things prob the most important stat and theres no stat for that .before i make judgements on players i need to watch them over a period of time.i know over nikos time here hes been overall bad.im not sure on klay either are u because u have to watch them play over a period of time,unless u were a mavs fan and watched his games u have no clue how much he helps or doesnt help.its called the eye test thats how i judge the players.so if vagi says hes no good im trusting vagi on that y the f would vagi be so adamant.about klay.your klay stats are meaningless watch the dude play and report back to me.once again stats are for losers.give me guys that impact winning the most.and dont play d like dunc or ty.
Watched Klay since the Warriors wanted to trade him for Kevin Love and Jerry West had to threaten to resign to prevent that from happening. He’s a player that’s been underrated throughout his career, no surprise that continues here. The Heat FO appears to disagree, you could try to figure out why that is but it’s more fun I guess to make multiple posts calling people losers online.
stats are for losers not referencing you .its an expression in sports mainly football.team can gain 500 yds other team gain 300 and still win the game.turnovers reason for that.in bball hidden stats like offensive rebounds.blocked shots turnovers secondary statscontribute to wins and losses.sorry 2015 i wasnt calling u a loser.u have yours style of posting i have mine rc his and lebron his.
theres a saying in sports stats are for losers.you ever hear that?
pls never mention dru and offense in same sentence not fair to the word offense .lemelo ball is the biggest wildest gunner u can have him and trae.volume means sht % is everything.ill trust vagi whos watched him rather than a guy who goes on internet sites
klay 38 %3s 39 on 2s ill pass on that.not worth trading for even jovic.father time disease incurable
3PT volume matters as much as percentage, and Klay is elite at both. He took only 2.9 2FG per game last year so his FG% is basically his 3pt % last year. Hardaway has shot a similar 39-40% overall in 4 of the past 5 years.
hes old now if he was any good dallas would retain him
They may, at least until the trade deadline. Why pay him to go away when they can hold him and trade him later or just wait for his contract to expire?
Klay is not available.
I saw this multi-team trade proposal in Heavy on Heat and thought I would share it.
Heat receives: Kyrie Irving, Scottie Pippen Jr. and Trey Lyles
Mavericks receive: Donte DiVincenzo, Davion Mitchell and two 2029 first round picks (via MIA, MIN)
Wolves receive: PJ Washington, Dru Smith and Marvin Gardner
Grizzlies receive: Nikola Jovic
Although interesting, I don’t like this proposal for several reasons, including:
Talk about putting all of your eggs in one basket and hoping none of them break.
irving is a great offensive player when healthy but hes old now injured alot so no to that trade if he could stay healthy yes to the trade.im not doing it though
Noone knows if he can remain healthy. Even if he is relatively healthy, what kind of numbers can he put up now? He hasn’t played 70+ games since 2016-2017. He has played 60 or fewer games in each of his last 6 seasons. To quote Pat Riley himself: “The best ability is availability.” If it applied to Jimmy Butler in 2024, it should also apply to Irving and any other player today. No exceptions.
im not doing that deal based on age and injury history.when kyrie was balling best handle in nba history imo.man that dude could dribble should have been a harlem globetrotter
jim mad dog mandich was using that availability expression in the 70s.rip mad dog
A lot of different people have it said or something close to it. This is the one I felt most relevant.
If availability is a major selection factor, Riley needs to look at that first. What good is a ss (like Embiid) who does great during the regular season, but is out injured or playing hurt during the playoffs?DeRozan has averaged 74 games per season in his 17 year career, excluding the Covid shortened 2020 bubble season.
DeRozan is a master of the mid-range shot. He is also a closer. His personality type is low key, (like Wiggins.). He’s well-liked and a good influence in the locker room. He’s another gym rat.
You take those guys any time you can get them.
hell yes sm as the great rock band ratt would say a wanted man.a great #2 option he would be,when greeks not in whos getting us buckets .bam is a complimentary type player very good defender.pat fd up giving niko any $$ based on his play on the ct hes done that before.that 16 mil could fetch us dd and maybe a splash brother .the good bad and ugly of riley.more good for sure but lots bad.
But it’s like stocks. Past performance does not guarantee future performance.
Yup, he’d be a good addition. And I don’t believe he would suddenly forget how to play basketball by moving to the bench.
He could be a token starter in first and third quarters and be replaced early in each quarter. He could then be used primarilly at crunch time in 2nd and 4th quarters, where he has the most value.
I would do this. With Irving Heat are contenders. As long all eggs are whole.
id rather have irving than klay if dallas asked which player u want
That is a BIG NO. Taking from an already short frontcourt to add a shooter is silly. Klay is not in his prime. Niko could be entering it a la JJJ. If not Klay, someone will shake loose. Luckily the front office has tons of experience in roster building around stars and know how this s**t plays out every single time. The roster at the start of camp and season means absolutely nothing, especially in year 1.
It would also likely cost a first to incentivize Dallas to take on Jovics 4/64 contract, and the 2028 and 2029 firsts are the main assets left to improve the team. LAL is in a similar situation. Those are the two teams reported with interest, I don’t see those two teams competing to trade for Klay at all. Miami doesn’t need to do anything before the season starts, LAL like Dallas has 16 contracts and has to make a move to get to 15.
That is correct on who is in position to need to make a move. Reports also say Dallas wants to bring Powell back, so that is another factor for them if true.
On a psychological nerding out angle with Niko and the contract, considering he hasn’t played a single minute under the new deal, it would be hilarious if the imposter syndrome that hit Duncan reverses with Niko and he comes out playing up to the deal instead of it crushing him. Now maybe last year was that, but he wasn’t paid for that, so just random thoughts.
IMO that scenario with Jovic is definitely possible, he can help this team. And at the moment with Jovic’s long term money as a negative asset in a trade, it’s better to wait to see if he plays well next to Giannis and his contract goes from being negative to a neutral or even positive mid level contract. Then it would become the type of contract that teams are always looking to sign for the optionality, either keep the player to help on court or use the contract in a trade.
This is a situation where Dallas has to act before the season starts and Miami doesn’t have to do anything, so it’s really a waiting game that favors the Heat. Dallas has interest in creating a trade market for Klay but it doesn’t seem like one exists at all right now. They have to reduce the roster from 16 to 15 and have two months to do that by finding a 2 for 1 trade, and if they can’t do that they will have to cut a roster spot. Klay with an expiring contract and no role on the team is the obvious candidate, assuming they can’t find a consolidation trade with Gafford, PJ Washington etc going out. And if Klay has to be cut might as well save money in doing that with a buyout.
As the miami heat should trade nikola jovic for klay Thompson the miami heat would be smart to do it
Mychal Thompson has confirmed he is recruiting his son, Klay Thompson, to play for his hometown team, the Lakers, if he is bought out by Dallas.
Miami has absolutely no assurances Thompson will sign with the Heat rather than the Lakers or some other team if he is bought out. If Thompson is either not bought out or is ultimately bought out and opts to play for Los Angeles, his favorite team growing up, what will Riley do? Does he have a back-up plan?
It is my understanding DeRozan wants very much to play for Miami, but not for the bare veterans minimum. Miami has the funds to pay DeRozan and possibly pick up a another player if Riley is not sure Thompson wants to play for Miami (over Lakers) if he is bought out. This could turn into another long drawn out exercize in futility, like LeBron was.
Are two birds in the hand better than one bird in the bush? We should find out in the not-too-distant future.
If we don’t want to end up filling those last 2 spots with Duncan and Highsmith, it would be wise to make a move sooner than later. And it’s not that I think those 2 would be terrible, just that I think we need to do better than that.
Robinson’s 2026-27 Salary is $15.9 million, however, only $2 million is guaranteed. The contract becomes fully guaranteed on January 10, 2027. Although there are rumors Detroit is considering buying him out, they are not confirmed. The Pistons can still use his 3 point shooting, In addition, he is viewed as a trade chip before the deadline. That leaves Highsmith, who doesn’t move the needle at all. Heat will need to look elsewhere if any difference makers are to be added.
Miami has $8.9m of the non taxpayer MLE to offer vs LAL $0 in exceptions as a tax team. Klay makes 17.4m and if he signs for 8.9 in Miami that would save Dallas $8.5m this year and get them to 15 players. If they want to make more moves this season that extra flexibility could be big, they would have plenty of room under the tax to take on contracts vs being close to the tax now at $2.3m below.
Klay is also a better fit in Miami which has defense and is looking for shooting vs LA which is looking for perimeter defense.
In any case the roster is basically set, it’s about the upgrade in rotational depth between THJ or Pelle as starting SG now vs Klay as starting SG. Heat are a contending team and like with going after LeBron these are additional moves to increase the ceiling for this year.
Can you please provide the report that says DeRozan wants to play for Miami and doesn’t want vet minimum?
I see this story.
https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/miami-heat-receive-good-news-225607606.html
But in it the reporter states “My guess is — and this is strictly, I’m speculating — I think he will land there,”
Guess AND speculating is not words from DeRozan.
Also, who cares if Klay goes to LA. You sign Duncan if he shakes loose. The archetype is pure shooter and not player named X. Duncan still shot 41% last year, which happens to be better than Klay. Duncan is also younger. Klay brings a level of experience that, even though Duncan was on the Heat runs with Jimmy, is still not comparable to Klay.
It’s funny that I said in recent times that what Duncan needs is a very strong defensive that can mask his deficiencies. Now the starting lineup fits that narrative, whereas it did not before.
He also played well in the 2 playoff series the Pistons were in vs Orlando and Cleveland. Of random guys mentioned as Heat “shooter” targets I definitely prefer Duncan over that Buddy Hield rumor, though that one seems put to bed.
I would prefer Klay to get a different look/vibe to the new build, instead of any sort of run it back flashbacks, but from a numbers/fit/contribution perspective, Duncan works too.
He would be great for this team at starting SG, I don’t get how the rumor started that Detroit would make him available though. He has a fair contract at 15-16m that’s a trade chip because it has almost no guaranteed money. And Detroit needs his shooting. Also worth noting for the talk in general of Klay being washed or not worth acquring that he shot more 3PA per game than Duncan last year and in fewer minutes. Klay is a different type of volume shooter than anyone else in the NBA besides Curry, they both shoot the most in the least amount of time with the ball.
If folks are waiting around hoping that Dallas will buyout and release Thompson or that Detroit will do the same with Duncan, they may have a long wait. What’s the saying: “Hope in one hand and s**t in the other.”
Waiting here favors the Heat because Dallas has a fixed deadline to reduce its roster before the season starts, while Miami doesn’t have to do anything. Looking at the Dallas roster they have no one to release that they haven’t just signed, drafted, or given up assets for in a trade. Klay is the only expiring contract they have that makes sense to be cut. They could be trying to trade PJ Washington and Gafford, but both are starting extensions this season at 4/88 and 3/54, and they want assets back in a trade for both.
No mention of Duncan from this Pistons site, but this is their situation.
But the eventual Duren signing will also bring with it a decision, as the Pistons already have 15 players on their full-time roster, so when/if Duren signs, the Pistons will have to cut someone to stay under the roster limits.
They could cut Gary Harris making the veteran minimum or Chaz Lanier, would be stunning if they cut Duncan instead who should be starting for them. At $46m below the luxury tax they can afford Duncan’s contract this year, could also use it in a trade since it’s expiring and nonguaranteed until Jan. 10
I saw 4 people mentioned in that article, including the two you named. The others were Prince and Tolu Smith.
Purple Rain…Purple Rain.
I understand Detroit has absolutely no intent to release Duncan. What are your sources?
The Miami Herald has noted that conversations have taken place between DeRozan’s camp and the Miami Heat after other primary offseason pursuits shifted.
Sources close to DeRozan and around the NBA have indicated mutual interest between the two parties and noted that Miami is a preferred or “interesting” destination for the veteran free agent. However, no final or formal declaration has come directly from DeRozan himself.
Why are you asking? Didn’t you indicate you felt DeRozan was a bad idea?
im hearing la has no dinero otherwise the fits a good one in la especially if daddy has a say
In the department of being honest and not couching my opinions or softening my points of view for the “negativity police”, I will say I’ve never been a fan of Jovic. I also don’t like his contract. Getting someone to replace him and to help round out the line-up is a no brainer. The problem is would any team take on Jovic? I believe it’s unlikely that anyone buys into his bounce back potential, especially with the cost attached. That’s probably just something the team stuck with a player like him keeps hoping for because they have to. But, that would be great if someone did take him off our hands. It’s my opinion that the only way he gets moved is by giving up something else too and even then it’s unlikely. So, let’s hope for that mojo to finally get found cause Jovic will likely be here till the turn of the decade. I hope I’m still there by then.
Riley sucks! He’s too old. He’s lost it. So many GMs are better. Oh I’m so happy now! I can’t express how thrilled I am! All is forgiven Pat. Thank you thank you thank you. Kumbaya.
Negativity police? No need to be sly. You were one of the most consistently negative people here for 2 years and you’re concerned that you can’t freely give your honest opinions? Stop. Because you always did so. Maybe you just don’t like when someone states their own honest, opposing, opinion, and challenges yours. I have never suggested that anyone here shouldn’t state their opinion, as long as we all can deal with being called out on a given issue.
I try to be objective. I have been supportive and critical (mostly critical) of Jovic. Most here agree that this is the year he must put up or shut up. The year we will know if it was interesting foresight or really dumb mistake. I tend to be optimistic more often than not. His skill set is intriguing. We will see.
You have taken my comments about the team and attacked me on a personal level several times lately on the same issues and I have previously sloughed it off each time in the interest of unity on these threads. But, after awhile your repetitive comments lose their impact and only reflect on yourself and your bullying nature. So, I ask you, who is the negative one here?
So, now I will give you back a little of your own medecine, richly deserved. Your hedged, often forced attempts at finding positivity in every situation become predictable and insipid after awhile. You say a lot, but not much at all because you try to be on both sides of issues so you won’t be wrong. And therefore, your comments are usually lacking in insight or clarity, becoming a word soup about nothing but trying to say the right thing or being a cheerleader.
Further, your comments often lack courage as I guess you’re just too afraid to say anything honest. Anyone can say I like this or I like that. And anyone can say I’m going to wait and see how this turns out because I don’t want to overreact.
Another consistent flaw in your thinking is your inability to see that our team makes good moves and bad, just like any team does. To you, everything’s a globalism, either your all right or your all wrong. And then you take that incorrect way of looking at the world and turn it into thinking that it makes you somehow superior, and that’s when it becomes a problem.
Here’s a reality check…Keep your attacks to yourself. They only make you look bad.
Here’s a reality check…Keep your attacks to yourself.
You may have tried to follow that advice yourself over the last 2 years. And to suggest I try to play both sides of issues is utter hogwash. I was very clear in my support of Riley (Or when I disagreed with him as well. Same for Spo). I was clear in my support of Jaquez in his sophomore season. I was clear about stating how egregious I felt the contracts of Lowry and Whiteside were. I was clear about the mistake the Heat made not trading Butler sooner (I actually advocated for it in the February trading period the season he got hurt before the playoffs). I have not been clear about Jovic. Why? Because I honestly don’t know what he may become, if anything.
Do I try to see the positive side of a player or issue? Yes, and I have no intention of changing that.
since ive been posting here your the only guy that takes shots at me consistently calling me not a fan,thats not reality czech.i get frustrated with some of the moves pat makes some of spobots choice of personnel and some of uncs d and jovics suckiness hell yeah your gonna hear .it from me .a fan is a person who wants his team to win every game and watches every friggin team or goes down to the arena.i czech that a guy that doesnt watch the games to me is not a fan.i make sure those 3 hours are dedicated to my fav basketball team,so stop with the bs im not a true fan please sir u dont know what your talking about.i appreciate u being a heat fan but i am as big a heat fan as u are
“a fan is a person who wants his team to win every game”
The first part is correct, but where we differ is that my definition adds that a fan is loyal to their team win OR lose. You post a lot of very strong negative comments and you’re entitled to do so. I’m entitled to respond to those comments. It has nothing to do with you personally, as a human being. We haven’t hung out together on Hollywood restaurant row in the Young Circle area. I don’t really know you. We all seem to be decent folks here that work hard or are retired. I have been passionate about this team since they announced its inception. Win or lose, I will remain loyal. It’s the same with other teams like the Dolphins. 53 years and counting since the last championship, and watching them last night felt like more of the same will be the case this season.
I was on Phinsider this AM reading the comments on the first preseason game recap and saw a poster calling you out for always mentioning Tua. I laughed at the parallel to you here with Niko and/or Duncan. I guess if you think it’s okay to tear them down in every post then I guess it’s also fair when someone else calls you out for doing that non-stop.
Either way, here’s to another year of you and Niko together. 😉
juk was a tua ass kisser forever.tua was soo mediocre with tyreek hill and waddle he kept on making excuses for tua.tua for a year or two was very good because of tyreek .jovic has been pretty bad no flashes of good consistent play ever.maybe with greek he can be at least mediocre
he plays good ill praise him doesnt criticize thats sports 2q
By the way, I am not attacking you personally. I don’t really know you, but believe you’re a decent person. So I am not taking issue with you, but rather some of your positions.
So, I’m fine with you not ‘couching your opinions’. In fact, I don’t think you ever did. And if I think a response is warranted, I will do so. We can both appreciate our First Amendment rights.
i dont recall rc attacking u to much me yes.big deal he disagrees with me thats sports.hes a heat fan alls good with rc.bro likes the heat and rock .my type guy
Heat, Canes, Fins, Marlins, Panthers, Rock (I like other music too). Thank you for those words.
“‘Cause we can’t see eye to eye
There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy
There’s only you and me and we just disagree”
That was the theme song for my first divorce.
Mine was J Geils Love Stinks
Theme song for my second divorce was “I Don’t Care Anymore” — Phil Collins
Okay, bad marriage, great song.
The best option is for Miami to wait to see how Jovic does on August 28 & 31 in Serbia’s FIBA Basketball World Cup European Qualifier games and during Miami’s 5 preseason games in October. Who knows, maybe last year’s “attitude adjustment” was exactly what he needed to grow up and get his s**t and game together.
If he has his mojo back, it would be apparent by then and Miami would have him locked up for 4 years. If Miami trades him now and his mojo comes back stronger than ever while playing for another team, several folks are gonna be sitting around with their thumbs shoved up their a****s with puzzled looks on their faces wondering where they went wrong…starting with The Godfather.
If Miami is willing to wait several weeks to see if a difference maker falls out of a tree, it can surely wait a couple of months to see what kind of player Jovic can/will be. If Jovic’s game has improved, he could be valuable to the team as a SF or PF. At worst, he could be a more valuable trade chip than he is now.
Man, I would hate it, but would understand at the same time. Jovic you better deliver.