(Photo via Miami Heat/X)
Heading into Saturday’s matchup against the visiting Detroit Pistons was a huge test from the start. The Miami Heat secured several statement wins this season thus far, but the top seed Pistons’ physicality posed too much of a challenge in this one, as they defeated Miami with a final score of 138-135.
The final score does not show how dominant Detroit looked. The Heat were down by as many as 20+ plus points in the second half, and got pummeled in the paint against Detroit’s physical play style. The loss snapped a six-game winning streak for Miami, dropping them to a 13-7 record overall and down to the fourth seed. Detroit improved to an impressive 16-4 as they remain 2.0 games atop of the Eastern Conference standings.
Cade Cunningham’s 29 points and 8 assists on 14 of 25 shooting led the way for the Pistons, along with icing the game to put them up by four points in the final seconds. Tobias Harris also scorched the Heat defense with 26 points on a near-perfect 10 of 12 shooting. In his first return to Miami as a member of the Pistons, Duncan Robinson dropped an 18/5/5 all-around statline on 50% shooting as Detroit’s starting shooting guard alongside Cunningham in the backcourt.
The biggest disparity of the night was indeed the difference in total paint points, where Detroit head a 30+ edge. In a game that the Pistons’ star big man Jalen Duren sat out due to injury, their aggression down low still got the best of the Heat. They also shot 59% from the field as a team compared to Miami’s 50%.
Detroit led for majority of the night , and this game wouldn’t have finished nearly as close had Miami not attempted a furious late-game comeback. The Heat had a 44-30 fourth quarter advantage, but it was too little too late.
Andrew Wiggins kept them in the game with his game-high 31 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and three steals on 10 of 15 shooting. He got some help offensively from Norman Powell, who added 28 points on another efficient outing.
However, both Tyler Herro and Bam Adebayo struggled. Herro managed to finish strong with 24 points, but he started the game 1 for 10 shooting. His first half inefficiency led to the Heat’s poor start— putting them in a hole that was too big to climb out of. Adebayo finished with a 15 and 10 double-double but only attempted nine shots on the night. Miami has to find a way to get him more aggressive with his attempts now that Herro is back in the fold.
Among even bigger problems, Nikola Jovic once again looked unplayable.
Jovic got an opportunity amid Jaime Jaquez Jr. being sidelined with a groin injury, but finished with just 2 points and five turnovers in 10 minutes off the bench. There was one sequence specifically that had Jovic cough up back-to-back embarrassing turnovers in the span of 10 seconds— which killed momentum for another mini comeback for the Heat earlier in the second half. His nightmare start to the season has continued, and negative impact performance like this is only going to stash him deeper out of coach Erik Spoelstra’s rotation entirely again.
Miami is 0-4 against Detroit in their last four matchups, with all games being decided by three points or less.
And with the Pistons resurgence to the top of the East this season, the Heat will have to address these matchups against them if they want to breakthrough as a true top team in the conference. Miami will regroup to hopefully bounce back against the visiting LA Clippers on Monday.
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More Nikola Jovic and Tyler Herro observations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ti3hZ1lCOE
I haven’t seen a game since Tyler came back. But I think the Heat’s biggest problem is that they have 7 starters right now. Jamie has already agreed to come off the bench. I think Tyler has to also move back to a 6th man role. Instead of being a worse Norm Powell, he could be a better Pelle Larson
That may work for a while, but Herro won’t be happy and I can envision another quitter scenario in the making. If an all-star doesn’t fit on the first team…trade him and get someone who does. Preferably a two way/high scoring PG or an upgrade at SF. Throw in a couple of others and pick up a back-up PF as well.
I think it’s way too soon to start talking trades. He just came back! Just gotta figure out how to fit him in.
The problem is that Norm is too good to bench, and Davion is a better fit with both of those guys than they are with each other. But if you go 3-guards, then you’re moving Wiggins or Ware to the bench, which also makes no sense.
So in the end, you gotta make a choice between Herro or Norm. You gotta start one and turn the other into a ‘superstar sixth man’. And Spo is always flexible with his closing lineups. So it’s just about who starts. The problem is getting either one of those guys to come off the bench when they both think they’re all-stars.
It depends on if Riley intends to keep both. Otherwise, have the keeper start and the other one play with the second unit until a good trade comes along. The best teams generally use rotations with two way players, to the extent possible.
if davs gonna play 25-30 mins a night hes got to score in double figures,his 3 is off this year compared to last year.but if he cant crack double digits scoring need to find somebody that can.between norm jjj wiggy pelle think 2 3 position is fine.the window for powell is prob 3 more years so lets build up the team and give me and rc a chance to meet bisc blvd along with my old homie friend 30 man
I’ll be there brother. Just like in Coach K’s phys ed class!
i was really impressed with duncs all round game last night he defended well jovic tried him on for size he got nothing .played good d went to the hoop didnt shoot it that great.but he has worked on his game.tylers d has gotten so bad hes unplayable .
I’m not gonna lie I prefer the team we had before Tyler came back.
I believed we had enough scoring and our defense had no weaknesses for opposing teams to consistently exploit during a game.
Now that Tyler is back we get to see why I personally dreaded his return.
He is too easy a target for opposing offenses to take advantage of, as everyone saw in the game last night when the Pistons consistently picked on him during the 4th quarter.
This is not new, I posted here a few days ago that that the team’s defense was likely to take a turn for the worst especially against good teams when Tyler returned.
I’m not saying this because I dislike Tyler in fact on the contrary I’ve defended him for many years on different basketball sites throughout the internet against dudes who simply just don’t like the guy whether he performs well or not.
I personally came to this conclusion after a few years of carefully dissecting Heat games (regular season and playoffs).
I watched the 2024 playoff series against the Celtics live and then I rewatched it again a few weeks later.
The Celtic’s number one game plan on offense was to exploit Tyler’s defense.
And as you watch that series unfold you clearly get to see how confident the Celtic’s become knowing that they could always get two easy points off of Tyler’s defense.
Same thing in the last playoff series against the Cavs.
The Cavs main game plan just like the Celtic’s series was to attack Tyler’s defense, and you could clearly see their confidence start to go through the roof when they come to realize that they could always get easy points off of Tyler.
It seemed to make them feel almost invincible.
I also rewatched a lot of last season’s 4th quarters to see why they were constantly blowing leads,
There were always a lot of different things helping to contribute to each loss from game to game but there was also always one consistent theme in those 4th quarters, and that was teams successfully exploiting Tyler’s defense.
He’s only 25 so his best offensive basketball could still be ahead of him but I don’t see how with his physical limitations and his mindset how he’s going to improve on the defensive end even as he matures.
He’s 6’5 195 lbs with a 6’3 wing span.
He isn’t athletic or has quick feet.
He doesn’t block shots, he’s below average career wise in steals and deflections.
He does not consistently put his body into guys on the defensive end nor does he take charges.
And the few occasions he does put his body into a player it does not matter because he’s way too slight to bother that player.
How is this guy going to become even an average defender as he gets older.
Luckily for us we have his replacement right here on the team in Norm whom we got in the summer for a pittance.
He’s older than Tyler but will likely resign for much cheaper.
And he’s just as good a scorer as Tyler is.
He doesn’t have his court vision but he makes up for it by being a much better defender.
So after many years of not wanting to trade Herro I’ve reluctantly come to the conclusion that we will not be able to win a championship with him as one of our main guys and that he should be traded.
Agreed with the whole post. And will even add he should’ve been traded years ago
im sure pats tried no takers for what pat wants
Excellent, well supported case. Its hard to disagree with your logic.
It doesn’t matter how many points Herro scores during the regular season or how good an offensive player he is, if his defense is going to be exploited during the playoffs, he is a liability, not an asset. I think we all got a good glimpse of how good the Heat can be if the team has no defensive weaknesses to exploit.
Sure, there are still holes that need to be filled to take the team to the next level. But there are also assets that can/should be used to get the team there. Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic and Terry Rozier’s expiring contract should have some value. Just imagine how good the team can be if it retains its core group and uses its expendable players to upgrade the roster.
Core Players: Ware, Bam, Powell, Wiggins, Mitchell, Jaquez,
Secondary Players: Smith, Larsson, Jakucionis
Expendable Players: Herro, Rozier, Jovic, Johnson, Fontecchio
why keshot what did he do wrong hes been good when spobots played him.all the others yes .
Contract expires. If Heat not using him or planning to extend him, throw him in as a filler.
If they extend to keep him it should be at minimum for 3 years and consider him a long term development project. He has potential but needs time to smooth out his rough edges and develop needed skills.
I am a Herro fan and try to be objective, and I agree with others that you present a valid argument here without being in any way vindictive.
yes trade him for any decent 6 9 guy
I really like Ty, but have said before he came back that it makes the most sense to trade him. Since he got back I have been cheering him on like I do every Heat player.
But, I can’t help but think he would bring back a lot. Yes, we’d miss his scoring, but what we get back will likely help us in an area of more need. And, the biggest reason to trade him is his contract. We cant pay him his bag and even if we do pay him something less, it will still tie our hands on bringing in other players. He is also very prone to injury so it’s a huge risk. And then there is his defense which requires help.
But, it doesn’t matter what we say because it’s not likely to happen. For some reason Ty seems to be a player the GM wants to keep and build around. And because of that I only hope we use him optimally which in my opinion is off the bench. He does give us instant offense and at times can help us to win some games.
I agree with your comments.
We are on crossroads with Herros return. This is a prime example of NBA is more about money and business then basketball.
Well paid players wants to start, because if they don’t, there will be financial consequences down the road. Thats why Herro, Bam, Wiggins and Powell are starting together, with Mitchell there because he has to be there.
Its painfully obvious, that this lineup is too small, and there is an easy fix available. Start Ware in the place of Wiggins, Powell or Herro. But it wont happen, because there will be an unhappy player on the bench. Also, at least Wiggins and Herro are still trade candidates, so they need to play, to attract some interest.
Having too many good players, is a problem not yet solved for this team.
Nico is a special case. I listened Spo in press conference. He denied the claim that this is a mental problem. He said, Nico will be fine and that he needs to improve some skill and work hard every day to came back on the tracks. Probably a PR statement, but I doubt he and Heat will give up on him. After all, he is unplayable and untradeable at the moment. They didnt give up on JJJ, and it pays off.
But time is running out for Nico, thats the fact. I give him time till all star break, no more.
Ware went in the other direction. He is nothing short but great lately.
The $62 million contract extension will make it difficult to trade Nikola Jovic this season due to the “poison pill” provision, which makes him harder to move mid-season than over the summer. His new contract’s value will count much higher for incoming teams than for the Miami Heat, making a trade less appealing in-season.
just dont play him at least dumbot prob cost us game,did keshot say something to spos wife
Him and Simone both.
I hate to say this but I believe Spo is responsible for Niko’s lack of confidence.
Niko came into the season with a lot of confidence after playing in the euro basket tournament and being this was his 4th year here.
He had enough confidence in himself to want to start for the team at pf.
But after only one game Spo pulled him and I think it really fked with his head especially since the same thing happened last season with Spo pulling him from the starting lineup after just a few games into the season.
The problem was that the team didn’t lose that first game against Orlando because of Niko, he was a +8 for the game while most other players were a minus, Wiggins was a -21, yet it was Niko that got yanked from the starting lineup.
Ten guys played in that game and only 3 guys had a positive effect on the game and Niko was one of the three.
Spo always preach about the game not being about stats but more about having a positive effect on the game. ‘Putting your imprints on the game’ as Spo likes to say.
Niko did that after having the 2nd best plus-minus in that game out of ten players yet Spo ridiculously benched him after only one game.
How is that going to help a young player’s confidence if he’s being told to put a positive imprint on a game and after he does that he’s unfairly targeted by his coach for a demotion.
From that game on I believe his confidence was on shaky ground.
And Niko is not like Ware, Ware can handle that type of coaching but Niko needs to be coach differently imo.
Interesting take on the subject
Maybe it was his 3 rebounds, 0 assists and 3 turnovers. In addition to being physically tough to play PF in the NBA, a player needs to have a thick skin. If one game is enough to screw up a player’s head for 5 weeks, he isn’t very strong mentally.
It’s time for Niko to grow up, grow a couple and allow his man strength to kick in. He’s not a kid any more and shouldn’t expect to be coddled like one. If he wants to play PF in the NBA he needs to play like it. The last thing Miami needs is another softie.
Maybe. But you have to take into account, that all those players like Nico are coming from the other side of the planet in NBA. Its much easier to do that nowadays as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago, but its still really hard. They don’t have support as American players does, they need to learn language, different life style, food, relations etc.
They also need to establish reputation in somehow hostile environment in the way, that in US athletism is valued over skills. You can see it everywhere, even on that forum, plenty of poster here prefer athletics players over skilled ones. Its nothing wrong about that, but this is also another obstacle for a non athletic player from Europe.
Those are not soft players, and mostly not labile personalities.
I think, the problem is somewhere else. Nico is not extremely talented for basketball, which explains why he was 27 pick. He needs to train constantly hard and needs more reps then other, more talented players. He also have to be put in certain position, to be successful. More talented players (stars) are able to manipulate the game, he is not such players.
IMO, he needs to put some hard work behind the scenes, which is his obligation, and have to be put in the position to succeed. With JJ out, he played the position last game, but he sucked. So the first part is missing.
Chalk that game up to experience. It’s obvious Jaquez was missed in this one. Not only his interior scoring but his playmaking and rebounding.
If Riley felt Jovic was worth a 4 year $62M extension, what will Jaquez be worth? I hope Heat doesn’t try to low-ball him and winds up losing him to another team willing to pay him what he’s worth.
Paul Reed would have been a great back-up for Miami. Riley needs to fix front court back-up problem asap or Heat will suffer the consequences.
If it comes down to keeping two out of three, Hero, Powell and Wiggins, I know who I would prefer. I wonder what the market will be like before the trade deadline? Hmm?
Spo, please send Jovic to Sioux Falls immediately. He’s not helping the team at all and will not until/unless he gets his head and game together. He’s totally off the rails. Better for Miami to try to fix him now before his contract extension kicks in. He has to get Euroball out of his head. NBA is a much different more physical game. He must evolve. The sooner the better.
Even though we are not a monolith here at HHH, there has been a lot of consensus on where the Heat are at and what they need to go farther in their never tank Heat Culture. Sometimes it’s frustrating because it appears we keep beating a dead horse (what a horrible expression) but that is only because there are constraints on things we can do to improve. Over spending is penalized heavily and trades are complex as they are hard to balance. The Rozier fiasco made things even more muddled. So we keep hoping certain combinations of players will work without making major additions or subtractions.
But, there are games where you get taught basketball lessons and sometimes they can be harsh. It’s never just one game, more like a series of events. But, eventually one game will bring some clarity despite the various ups and downs that players have (is it biorhythms?). Certain teams have a way of exposing weaknesses that previously had appeared to come up but were dismissed as acceptable until it can no longer be denied that they exist and are more of a general trend than a one off.
That seemed to have happened last night. We could learn a lot from that game, if its lessons are heeded. We are a better team than last year, a B level team where before we were C+ level, even with Jimmy. But, if we want to get to A- level or higher, there are moves that need to be made, and the answers are outside the organization. A backup to Andrew Wiggins, a 6’9” to 6’10”player with two way skills, is foremost on the list. Other than that, some tweaking is also needed, but not a lot else is that wrong that we need outside help.
Incidentally, another Sun excellent suggestion, Collins went 9-10 for the Clippers last night. There are a lot of teams that are playing terrible and will be willing to deal. It’s not like the player we need is totally unavailable, but a trade will be necessary.
collins for herro fills a need,but james similar to herro just better player,maybe the ex buck brook lopez hes in la la land zubac is their center ,need size and bulk.spo wont give vlad a shot not sure why.
Are you seriously suggesting we trade Herro for Brook Lopez? Have you seen Brook Lopez play this season?
have u seen tylers d.the team was playing great w/o him/just get him off the team dont give an f who we get just some big rough guy,team has 15 softies need a bad ass on team .(isiah stewart type)
I was recommending that 3 years ago. Stewart, Portis, Reid, Reed, somebody. There’s a big gaping hole meanwhile.
Thank you for making sense. Am I totally satisfied with the team? No, it needs more tweaking. But if I asked before the season began, who would be okay at 13-7 after 20 games, everyone would have raised their hand.
Correct. But now that we’ve seen the team’s potential, why should we be satisfied with what is when we realize what can be with a couple of improvements. In today’s NBA, teams must constantly evolve or die. I’m not happy if Heat is a playoff team when it could be a contending one. This is not the time to be patting ourselves on the back.
Yes, but I have never suggested we stay status quo, only that we can appreciate the difference of this season to last.
I think there has been a great degree of satisfaction amongst us at HHH. You can tell just by the amount of posts lately. We have been, almost to a poster, laudatory of this somewhat unexpected rise in results. We are not just grateful, we are over the moon. And most, if not all, of us are happy with our top nine to ten players. We could be complimentary of everyone on the team but the eleventh man and, to you, we aren’t showing enough fealty to the team that you should diss our fandom. And you say that one minute and then the next you say that you don’t overreact and you knew all along that this team isn’t that good.
Do you think that by advocating for improvement we are acting as if we don’t see how good we are playing? We are talking about upgrading in one area and there is general consensus amongst us it would help us a lot. We only started discussing it after unsatisfactory results accumulated for a good while. It was not a knee jerk reaction at all. We all know how this team is doing. Maybe we don’t make sense to you, but everything we are doing and saying is understandable and rational and pretty damn valid.
BTW, that eleventh man was referred to by both HHH and AYCH as unplayable over the last game. Eric Reid even expressed concerns and he is as loath to criticize as a person can be.
Our love and appreciation of this team and how we are doing, and our recognition of its accomplishments, is unassailable, even taking into account the comments of a few critics, most of whose comments were far nicer, and were mainly focused on that players’ self improvement, than the presses.
Wow, I admit I got a bit of a congenial chuckle out of how you read so much into my one sentence comment. My position has been steady – we are better than last season and I am glad. I wasn’t suggesting that everyone else was not happy with the team. I wasn’t suggesting that there was anything wrong with making moves to improve the team. That would be pretty counterintuitive. However, I don’t see happiness and appreciation when one or more people in a game thread keep inferring that Spo sucks and literally I hate Spo. As anyone with sense knows, if Spo decided to leave the Heat, almost every team would line up offering any amount of money to hire him. It’s comical that the least amount of respect he gets is here. Also, like you, SM, and many others, I have been an advocate for getting a viable backup pf/c. I’ve said it multiple times. And if you were referring to Jovic as #11, I have been adamant that he should only play when he earns it. Am I totally giving up on him? No, not yet. But I was chided for saying I was not giving up on Jaquez, and again when I said just a few weeks ago that I wasn’t giving up on Keshad.
I thought it was time to stick up for some of the guys that love this team even as they focus on how it can improve. I have grown to really appreciate this site and the journey we have gone on together. What a drama filled last few years it’s been. And this year has been so much fun so far. I’ve already said several times how much I enjoy and respect your input, but I wanted to push back a little on the idea that when someone points out a weakness, they are always having a knee jerk, not fully fleshed out reaction, that doesn’t take into account the normal highs and lows of life in the NBA, or the potential for rapid, nonlinear progression a la JJJ. I do think that there are times we need to hold our water, but some trends have emerged over the proverbial twenty game measuring stick, which we all agreed was an adequate time frame to start to make assessments over.
Okay, so you’re pushing back on my pushing back? Fair enough.
your coach is as good as your players thats reality.bernie bickerstaff jr all of a sudden a great coach.give pat credit he got spo wade and other hofers.good for spo hes gonna go down as a top 10 15 coach all time
Look, if you want to say that, I will respond again, ad nauseum, that you have to apply that in every sport on the planet. Lombardi, Shula, Torre, LaRussa, Bowman, Trotz, etc etc. No matter what, if you don’t have the right combination of players, you’re probably not gonna win. Period. But I notice time after time, you call out Spo for bad coaching. How is that possible if coaching doesn’t matter?
Absolutely. I do. Meanwhile, I can’t stop my brain from working on ways to improve the team. Not all of my ideas are valid. That’s why its called brainstorming. If you give problems enough thought, the solutions will present themselves.
Believe me, I do appreciate the considerable progress the team has made since the quitter quit on his teammates, the fans and the city.
I am all for any move that will improve the team. I look at trade proposals here and around the internet. I also play with the NBA Trade Machine. There is not a trade I wouldn’t do if it brought a return that improved our team.
That’s a big stretch there heat. The Heat needs an athletic, back-up PF. He doesn’t need to be a big scorer but does need to be a good defender and rebounder who can fit into the run and gun offense.
Herro, Nico, Powell, Wiggins and Jaquez are issues that need to be addressed down the road.
It sure would give Miami financial flexibility if Adam Silver would resolve the Rozier trade issue. As it now stands, Heat got the shaft on that deal all the way around, because of the failure of the NBA and Charlotte to disclose relevant information. It was like selling a house without disclosing major unseen foundation or other issues negatively impacting it’s value. Miami needs to sue everyone involved…now!
So true. Penalize the innocent – great concept.
if char knew about that then yes if not no
Charlotte was notified of both the ongoing FBI and NBA investigations and chose not to disclose them to Miami, just as the NBA did not chose to do when it (Silver) approved the trade. Seems like an open and shut case of breach of contract.
Per NBA Rules:
Again, since both Charlotte and the NBA failed to disclose relevant information regarding Rozier’s potential criminal activities (and potential value), prior to proceeding with the 2024 trade, they would both appear to be civilly liable. It’s up to Miami to pursue legal action or to continue suffering the consequences.
Collins has sucked this season
I already said he went 9-10 last night. But, whether it’s him or someone else, there are about nine teams that are already just playing out the string. I do believe there are trades available. And not Lopez, we need a two wayer. It’s not as much about bulk as wingspan and athleticism.
Abso (f’ing) lutely!
Collins is just not a good player. Several teams already get rid of him.
Better than Nico.
I m better then Nico. Take me.
Sorry. Don’t have another $62M to spend.
Collins is a 6’9″ PF who has averaged 15.8 points and 7.9 rebounds in 492 regular-season games. What exactly are you looking for in a back-up PF?
yeah hes off based hes mad about nikos suckiness
Your are right. I m mad on that bum.
dario sarcic maybe
Rozier and Jovic for DeRozan, Saric and Keon Ellis works for me.
I’m in agreement with you, I’d rather have Collins over Nico. I think one of spo’s best abilities are getting the best out of a player. I think Collins would play better down here for his hometown team. He would help on the boards tremendously, and provide more consistency scoring then either niko,keshad,vlad.
Somebody who can play defense.
career 16 pts 54 36 8reb 6 9 225lbs not a bad player .little above average similar to wiggins level
Also suspended by NBA for 25 games because drug use. Traded to Utah for and old Rudy Gay and second pick. What a price! Traded to LAC in a deal, which brought us Powell. Maybe we should take Collins in this trade.
He averaged 20 in 2018 and 2019, he was in decline since there, with a little better performance in Utah.
Never made more then 2 assists per game in his career.
A pure go to guy.
Wiggins can defend and assist to some degree. Clearly a better player.
Our back-up PF (Jovic) has sucked more.
my i ask do u live in la
I thought Jaquez was back-up for Wiggins. He’s one of the few players who seems to be carrying his weight, especially considering he is still on his rookie contract. That 6’9″-6’10” back-up you are referencing should be Bam’s back-up. Collins is a PF not a SF.
jjj strong but undersized to guard pfs collins isnt
Wiggins is a SF not a PF. Why you want PF as his back-up?